My gorgeous photo on my blog…

*** June 2007 update: guess.com took away the image I was using. too bad. she was hot, like me 🙂

is not me. 🙂

i’m no dog…woof.

but i’m also no moron. girls who post pix on the web can have them stolen and used for nafarious purposes.

like this pix…which i stole from guess.com.

i’m more hippy, but the basic shape and colouring is me.

in touch,
holly.

Feminism vs. Christianity?

there was a great posting in a woman’s blog in BigChurch.com about feminism and Jesus’ relationships with women.

i LOVED it.

it just goes to show that the chauvenistic church of the day and ever since is quite strong.

add in the council of nicea where a bunch of guys in a sexist culture compile that bible while believing themselves to be divinely inspired and it’s no surprise women are stuck where we are in Christianity today.

the fact that the church as a whole is not on the forefront of women’s liberation just goes to show the extent of male domination still going on. at least SOME churches are open to women.

anyway, i posted a comment to that blog entry in BigChurch.com and i reprinted it here below the blog posting:

thought you women might be interested in this:

Feminist perspectives: Jesus was an
advocate of feminism and women’s rights.

by Marilyn Adamson

Feminist perspectives have often criticized various religions for their treatment of women. They are absolutely right. Illustrations of religious abuse of females can be pointed out in the United States and internationally. What many feminist perspectives don’t take into account is that Jesus would have been one of feminism’s greatest allies.

Look at the culture in the Middle East where Jesus lived. Jewish rabbis began every temple meeting with the words, “Blessed art thou, O Lord, for thou has not made me a woman.” Women were excluded from religious life and rarely taught the Torah in privacy. Yet Jesus publically included many women as his disciples, infuriating the religious leaders. He taught crowds of men and women and healed and performed miracles for women as readily as for men.

Jesus also challenged their sexist social laws. At that time there was a law allowing a husband to divorce his wife over anything, for example, dinner not being prepared on time. Imagine the insecurity and cruelty that this law brought to women. And, as you might expect, a wife could never divorce her husband. Jesus however announced that both woman and man had the right to divorce the other, but only on the grounds of adultery, and even then divorce was certainly outside of how God designed marriage to be.

Another law of their day required stoning to death any woman or man caught in adultery. Often the law was disregarded and the man had no penalty, just the woman. They wanted to know how Jesus would respond to a woman caught in adultery. So one day several men dragged a woman before Jesus, whom they had caught in bed with a man, probably with a friend of theirs. And they challenged Jesus to consent to her stoning. They knew they had Jesus in a no-win situation. If He gave her mercy, He was a wimp and an enemy of their law. If Jesus stoned her, then so much for His uniquely respectful treatment of women, and His teaching about mercy and forgiveness.

Jesus responded by saying that the person in the crowd who had never sinned should be the first one to throw a stone at her. It was probably Jesus’ statement, but also His presence that affected the crowd. One by one they walked away. Jesus turned to the woman who was repentent and totally forgave her, as only God could.

Author Philip Yancey comments, “For women and other oppressed people, Jesus turned upside down the accepted wisdom of His day. According to biblical scholar Walter Wink, Jesus violated the mores of His time in every single encounter with women recorded in the four Gospels.”

It makes sense that it was women who loved Him and stood at the cross of Jesus, when most of the male disciples fled for their lives. And it was women to whom Jesus first appeared after rising from the dead after His crucifixion. This is remarkable. Jesus’ resurrection was proof of all of Jesus’ statements in which He identified Himself as equal to God. Though women had little standing in that culture, and no religious authority as spokespersons, Jesus gave them the role of informing others of His resurrection. Why? Maybe Jesus wanted to solidify that it was for the sins of women and for men that He came to die. Maybe Jesus wanted women and men to know that He offers them complete forgiveness and can give them direction, peace, and eternal life.

[To read for yourself how Jesus interacted with women and what He said about eternal life, read “John” chapter 11 in the Bible.]

Be blessed in Jesus name.

and here was my comment on that posting:

LOVE this piece! thanks!

the second to last church i was at in my last town was really progressive. women could do all sorts of things…as long as that included working with kids downstairs or anything to do with food or drink.

education committee was a place i wanted to be, i want to be a teacher. i could teach non-teen kids school, but i couldn’t sit on that committee. even though they knew i wanted to be a teacher, one WOMAN asked, “why did i want to sit on the committee though?”

all these things may be true about Jesus, but our culture is still patriarchal and in denial about gender equality. you’d think the church would be the most progressive place on the planet for liberating the oppressed.

no so much.

Sex Tip #1: Dorm Room Sexual Politics

so, here’s the post that got me kinda kicked out of BigChurch.com.

it’s from Feb 8, 2006.

now, i totally see now that it’s my bad. i kinda forgot the “rules” about profanity they have in there and i totally violated them.

in hind sight i’m not sure how i could have euphemism-ed the whole thing to get the point across without inspiring people to rat me out. at any rate they complained about this post, it got deleted [along with its comments] and my account got nuked. or maybe something just happened with my login. but anyway, i can’t get in there with my old account anymore.

so here it is. and despite the bS about it, i still stand by what i wrote.

while i spent a year in rez at UBC in Vancouver before transfering away, i learned a number of things about boys [and girls too, but that’s later]. so sex tip #1 for Christian girls–especially those of you who are young and just new to this site–goes like this: boys like to cum.

they’ll do anything to cum. they seem to feel that’s the only thing that matters. they’ll do anything to do it. they masturbate tons. they look for girls dressed like they’ll put out and they’ll also try to guage the sexual willingness of girls dressed conservatively.

christian boys are the same. plenty have had sex and are trying to control it, but they still NEED to cum. they just have to be more discrete and political and diplomatic in getting it. even guys in here, which is fine if you ask me, but funny too.

the political thing about gender politics, however, comes when you know that he wants to have plenty of orgasms, preferably with a girl in stead of alone, and you can use that over/with him.

this world is heavily steeped in favour of men. society gives them tons of power. to socially equalize this situation, then, it’s important to find ways of getting some power back…not to lord it over boys, but “to have equal capacity to act” [as my sociology TA once said, she was right].

so one of the things i learned in the dorms, not from Christian boys, predominantly [i’ll get to them in a bit], is to turn their desire to cum into something you control.

case in point, brad. brad is a nice guy but he gets around and doesn’t like relationships. no sweat. he’s nice looking, plays rec hockey and has a nice pair of buns to squeeze. dorm room politics one night led to us rolling around on his bed playing a kind of doctor.

as he got aroused and started pushing to slip it to me, he was in this “i have to cum” place. this is where he doesn’t really care what happens, as long as he cums. so i say, “hey, brad, why don’t you take it out and show me how you masturbate. it’ll really turn me on. i’d like to see it. i’d like to watch. and anyway, yer not getting inside me tonight anyway.”

brad says ok. THEY ALL DO at this point. so then he whips it out and either takes a long time or a short time before squirting. it’s quite fun to watch, of course. then he’s less obsessed with needing to cum in you, or on you or in your mouth or on your face, or on your breasts, wherever they think it would be cool for you [and him, of course], even if they’re wrong. whatever.

so the thing about the boys is that even if they’re not exhibitionists, they’ll likely do this for you. everyone’s got a kind of exhibitionist-voyeur in them. for some people they just won’t let it out cuz it’s quite buried. but other people are quite eager to. he’ll even be flattered that you want to watch.

now, even if you are interested in doing more than watching–like rubbing, touching, licking, sucking–the first time you do this with a particular boy, it’s best to keep it to just watching. leave room for progression. boys are programmed [biologically or socially, whatever] to try to slide their penis in you [any part of you] whenever and however they can. there’s a great deal of urgency too. they’d do it on the first night if they could and then where do you have to progress to.

the other thing, is that even tho he can bring himself to orgasm on his own, thank you very much, he’ll be pretty moved if you do more than just sit there watching. rubbing bits of you that feel good, breasts or pussycat, unbuttoning a few buttons, sliding your bra around or the strap down…all these things are pretty effective for keeping him in the mood.

being aluring for him too is good practice for you to enjoy your body for your own pleasure and for social fun.

so, the whole don’t be unequally yoked thing comes up. plenty of christians are unequally yoked and things work fine. and sometimes it doesn’t work out. but that’s also equally true of marriages among believers.

and if yer in a dorm room just fooling around, should you be yoked to a Christian? sure? no? it’s up to you. you’re not getting married. you’re going to be experimenting with your body and feeling either guilt or pleasure from it. i hope it’s pleasure.

what you do with non-Christian boys will also work with Christian boys. they usually will just be a little less pushy about getting inside you.

the church ladies who roam around in here will have different advice for you. it’s worth listening to, but then you’ve heard that all before anyway.

if you listen to them, you may find yourself in your late 20s, engaged, then married, still a virgin, spending the first mannnnnnnny awkward months of your marriage learning how to be sexual with anything less than pitch black. my divorced Anglican cousin Julie endured this. bad news. more about her in a little while.

also, if you get married without ever having had an orgasm, i’ll just weep for you. female orgasms are not biblically banned. boys’ are. that’s their problem. [actually, it’s not…it becomes ALL our problem, which is why i’m a fan of them ultimately].

in the end, i honour my body. i respect what feels good and what i wish to do. i honour that in other people too. i’m not an ascetic. i don’t beat myself with branches. Jesus is my friend and understands life in a body. the lack of Jesus’ sexuality in the bible is curious to me and a tad unrealistic. but, whatever.

in your dorm room or wherever, it’s important to respect yourself, to acknowledge your feelings, desires, and pleasures and engage in life responsibly.

keep your head out of the sand.

in touch,
holly.

Reverent Agnosticism

it’s important to take the plank out of our eyes before criticizing the speck in someone else’s.

this message is lost…or at best i think de-prioritized…by fundamentalist Christians.

they go around judging because more important verses in the bible tell them to fix the world and make it in there image, which they believe is Jesus’ image.

the theocracy that that Bush guy in the USA is pushing is just that kinda thing. it’s all about what he believes. other opinions and facts that don’t fit his view don’t matter. Iraq had WMDs? sure they did cuz he believes it to be so. screw the facts. they’re in charge so they must be right.

the Christians i can tolerate best are not those who go around with the church lady frown condemning everyone and changing everyone. even though they’re full of sin too.

MY priorities make it important to love people first, not judge them.

now, i haven’t read too much on reverent agnosticism, but i have heard some things on it. i heard it’s a kinda humanist anti-religion thing. but i’m not sure about that. the best i’ve heard of it came from the organist at a church i was at in Vancouver for a while before their sexist views drove me away.

he said reverent agnosticism is something Christians can hold along with their faith in Jesus. it’s a kinda humility position where we do our best to understand the bible as best we can and pick our denomination and all that. but at the same time as being reverent as best we can, we should not be so certain as to say that we’re right and all other denominations or even religions are wrong.

like, believe in what i believe, but hold open the possibility that when i die, Jesus will mention that i wasn’t totally right.

after all, how likely is it for any one religion to have totally got it right when the similar or far away denominations are so wrong. it’s an imperfect world and it’s hard to see that any one faith is exactly correct.

to believe so, you might as well be President George W Bush where you get to make up whatever you want cuz God put you in charge of all those nukes.

gimme a break!

in touch,
holly.

And then some ambiguity…

after the post with all the honesty, someone else tossed a comment in. my comments follow it.

Woo! I was hoping i was reading this wrong and actually it is ashame I read it at all. How sad, and I hope nobody takes your advice. May the lord open your eyes, it breaks my heart when people are deceived. Yes God is Good, but His word is very clear.May you truly come to know Him, May he reveal and touch your life.

i wasn’t sure if she was saying she hoped she was reading my post wrong or hoping she read the comment full of honesty incorrectly.

judging by the remainder of her comment i think she was dismayd at me.

in response, i gotta say this. i know God. God is awesome. He loves me tons. he respects me and honours me as his creation and i honour him. i clearly don’t agree with this person’s sense of sex, but in her eyes, that makes me blind.

how sad. again, this brings me to another reference to this reverent agnosticism idea. more on that later.

in touch,
holly

And then some honesty…

so after my initial posting, which was pretty tame, got some angry judgement, someone else piped in with some HONESTY! her post is below with my comments following it.

Hi Sex4Holly

I found your post amusing. I am not surprise that there is alot of sex going on in Christian clubs or in Christian churches. 20 years ago I got saved at 20 in a Pentecostal Church. I went to a Sunday school class called the ‘College Class’ because 60% of the kids were in college. About 25% of the kids were newly saved kids who never heard of church life. I came from a Baptist background but my parents and the people I lived around pretty much lived for themselves. There was no talk about salvation, personal relationship with Christ, living holy before the Lord, or Christianity. We I got saved I was surrounded by kids who were 3rd and 4th generations of there grandparents and moms and dads who had grew up in the church. This church was well known in the community. As a new believer I was excited about my relationship with the Lord and so glad to be around kids who knew scriptures as they rolled off their tongues. They could talk the talk of Christian terminology. I was however surprised to find out that as I had come out of the world many of the kids were in it and I mean in it! The Christian guys had no boundaries when trying to feel you up as men in the world did when I was in it. The kids would sit in their cars in the church parking lot at night and do it, neck, feel you up, name and it it was done. I know this because a few of the girls told me the church parking lot at night was one of the many hang out places the kids went to. I remember telling a new brother in the Lord I had become friends with if this was really true and he said, what did you think that all these people are really saved?’ I remember the word had got to the youth pastor what had been going on for a long time and about how many of the kids in ministry were hitting the town and going to some rough secular clubs. I remember the youth pastor telling the kids that if they were going to live for Jesus they were going to have to allow Jesus to be Lord over their lives. Some kids left the church, some said the pastor was coming down to hard and yet others came to the altar and repented. That day I ask Jesus to take away the sexual desire I had in the world. I knew if I wanted my relationship with the Lord to work that had to go.

I am glad you are being honest with were you are at.

Honest sex talk in the Christian community is taboo. Trust me Christians are having sex outside of marriage. I use to volunteer at the Pregnancy Resource Center and there were Christian woman coming in have pregnancy test who were not married and very scared. The Christian community needs to get off the fence on this important issue within the Christian community. The devil is selling sex, talking about sex, advertising about sex to every age 24/7 365 days of the year. Once in a blue-moon the subject of sex will be talked about. Many churches don’t want to believe that their youth are engaged in sexual activity or that their single men and woman are engaged in sexual activity. If you denied the problem exist then it does not need to be discussed. The body of Christ needs to deal with this libido issue in a realistic, compassionate and loving way a responsible father who watches out for his kids future would do.

whew.

i’m not saying she totally agrees with me or believes what i do or whatever, and that doesn’t matter. she at least recognizes the REALITY of life. i’m not kidding about the beyond-hand-holding that goes on in churches and Christian university groups.

and i’m not kidding about the cybersex in BigChurch.com itself.

and i’m not kidding about the girls i chatted in there about their sexual history and beliefs and how they run up against sexist church teaching and practice.

and i’m not kidding about what some of the men in their 40s expressed to me in IM sessions in BigChurch.com.

reality is reality and regardles of what people think it ought to be, it is what it is and there’s a lot of folks who aren’t guilted out by their activities. that’s gotta say something about the amount of people who aren’t “bible-beliving” in BigChurch.com, or are maybe just hypocrites.

not that Christian hypocrites are rare or anything. i’m sure one. like tons of others i guess. but i do my best. reverent agnosticism helps. more on that later.

one thing that stands out in this response is this “I ask Jesus to take away the sexual desire I had in the world. I knew if I wanted my relationship with the Lord to work that had to go.”

i just can’t see that. i know all the verses about heterosexual sex only within marriage. but this kind of self-oppression before marriage and voluntary repression cannot be healthy in the long run. with so much sexual sin and suffering inside Christian marriages, i think the cold shower theology is to blame.

and then, “Honest sex talk in the Christian community is taboo. Trust me Christians are having sex outside of marriage…The Christian community needs to get off the fence on this important issue within the Christian community.” i totally agree with this. honesty means truth telling which leads to shame and guilt and realizing that the church isn’t really being the church.

and if you define yourself as a church, you sure don’t wanna hear about it not being so.

but on this point, i have a different take, “The devil is selling sex, talking about sex, advertising about sex to every age 24/7 365 days of the year.”

as sex is stolen by marketing and violent and disrespectful sexmongerers, people, ESPECIALLY GIRLS AND WOMEN in our culture need to talk more to make sure we protect ourselves: from STDs, losers, violators, people who guilt you into doing stuff and anything that disrespects us, our emotions and our bodies.

in touch,
holly

A fine start to my BigChurch.com blog

so as i said, i was in BigChurch.com for a couple years. for many months originally i was in there pretty regularly then over the last 1.5 years only sporadically as my real life picked up steam. then a few weeks ago i went back in more regularly and started a blog to continue my relationship with ideas and folks in there. i also wanted to discuss sexuality with other young women from the point of view of what i’d learned.

bad idea. at least it seemed initially.

here was the first response to my first blog posting that i copied into my previous post here. i’ve got some more comments after it.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

The Lord calls sex outside of marriage an abomination…in others words I’m sorry for where you’ll be going if you don’t turn from your sinful ways.

Why do people call themselves Christian while they continue to sin.

Thats like slapping Christ in the face.

i totally know where this guy is coming from. people from conservative churches have been spouting this for some time now it seems.

this post is indicative of lots of stuff i got in response to beginning my blog and to my presence in chatrooms ever since i entered that site.

the thing about the breadth of Christianity, though, is that not all churches are so conservative. these bible-believing folks believe all other Christians aren't really Christians. the churches that welcome homosexuals aren't churches. and people who don't agree with them are simply burning in hell.

in touch,
holly.